00:22:38	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	Here is the consent form for today’s session, please complete so that we can have permission to share parts of today’s session -  https://forms.gle/SsPbwrRLbgHKT7686
00:38:35	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	The chat box has been enabled
00:38:55	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	We are looking into the internet connection
00:41:18	Adam John Roberts:	Suggested Reading: Kish, R., Mendieta, W., Backhaus, J., Ameel, M.J., Waugh, S., Canedy, K., and Canedy, T. (2024) “Producing Dance: A Collaborative Art with HK Propel Access.” USA: Human Kinetics
00:43:06	Sarah Hopfinger (she/her):	Thanks Jessica - the chat is working now and the connection is a lot better, hopefully this the case for others online too. Thanks.
00:43:40	Huai-Wen Chang:	Yes, much better now. Many thanks.
00:46:21	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	The camera (owl) does move somewhat as it’s sensitive to movement - in the next break, I will see if there is a resolution for this
00:54:27	Sarah Hopfinger (she/her):	What Christina said about the need to diversify producers, as much as artists, is so important. As an artist, I know that the diversity of producers really matters. It impacts how/whether an artist feels able to do and make work, bring their own work to that producer etc.
01:02:38	Debbie (she/her):	A random thought line....  at the macro level 'cultural operator' is no less of an oxymoron than 'creative industries'.  In film there isn't one kind of producer - there is a diversity in the roles of 'producer': e.g. those that are good at story development, those that understand the market for content, those who are good at knowing financiers and raising finance and bringing financiers together and so on.  Producing isn't an 'it' its a they and they work together to complement  each others skills.
01:06:56	Debbie (she/her):	Re relationship with artistic content/makers.... is there something here about  the (small) size and scale of dance compared with film or theatre?  Would a greater volume of quality content feed the requirement for a diversity of producers and enable the plurality of thinking and practice?
01:22:12	Dr. Laura Robinson:	I want to speak to the inherent creativity in freelance producers that I have seen in our MA Dance Producing and Management graduates over the years. The ability to make something from nothing. The resourcefulness and tenacity that they bring. The new business models they are playing with and the alternative funding they find. The innovative ways they are finding ways for artists to create their work and pay themselves in hidden lines in the budget. But as Mark says this is not sustainable in the current climate and we are losing them.
01:39:12	Vipavinee Artpradid:	Is there any research that comprises a qualitative analysis of all the (dance/creative) producer role job descriptions out there since 2010?
01:46:57	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	It should settle in a moment
01:48:07	Adam John Roberts:	On that note, breaktime started 5 minutes ago.
01:50:30	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	That’s the end of the second course. We are now going to take a 15min break. In the meantime, we will be turning off our sound and camera
01:58:59	Adam John Roberts:	My provocation: Are dance artists producers, and they just don't know it?
02:09:02	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	We are now coming back into the space
02:10:17	Vipavinee Artpradid:	lurking online :D
02:10:24	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	😄
02:38:49	Huai-Wen Chang:	Thinking producing in relation to value seems to tie in with money as the way to do with its measurement. But, is it possible that we chose the wrong tool for its measurement? What if we see the outcome of its measurement not only money but also enjoyment, happiness, satisfaction, excitement, and accomplishment progress as the value of its produce?  Can the change of what we ‘want’ to be the drive to make our future ecologies differently?
02:44:28	Debbie (she/her):	Just to locate the institutional producer vs freelancer, artists and structures within the macro context of ecology... we talk about the dance ecology as if static... and the gaps in it.... Do we have a shared understanding of what this is? Are we trying to grow it or fill in the gaps?  Who's job is it?  What evolutionary stage has the ecology reached?  Have we mapped it?  Have we any predictions (based on evidence) on how it might evolve or over what timescale?
02:50:06	Vipavinee Artpradid:	Maybe it is about these radical new organisations working outside the system (which might mean based in other countries) - thinking about why people put their money in offshore bank accounts!
02:55:37	Dr. Laura Robinson:	Just to build on this conversation through a management theory lens, fundamentally we need to address and interrogate the assumed business models that exist in the dance sector (even with a business set up as a sole trader/freelancer) and how we are looking to generate value proposition. It is innovative business models that will thrive in the current climate and skill building in this area will really equip dance producers
03:04:51	Jessica Ashley | FABRIC | she/her:	We’re having a short break and then we will be answering some of your questions
03:18:44	Sarah Hopfinger (she/her):	This is very much a provocation in response to the discussion about institutions/freelancers. I'm a freelance dance artist, and a part-time researcher at Royal Conservatoire of Scotland. I have found over the years that in my role as part of an institution the way I speak/how I think is effected and I become a representative of this institution. This can be OK, but I think it is also limiting and (for me) somtimes trapping. As a freelance artist (though it is more precarious) I feel more freedom in how I talk about and think about what is possible, what art can be made etc. Do the producers here have similar/different kinds of experiences in term of being part/not being part of institutions?
03:31:18	Jane C:	....for artistic integrity? which havevto compromise to get funding?
03:38:27	Sarah Hopfinger (she/her):	Just to add to my comment - I don't want to create a false binary between freelance/institutions, it is more a reflection on how our contexts really matter because they influence the kinds of words and thoughts we can have, and I've found being part of an institution that I often feel less free in imagining models/ways of working, but as an artist I feel more able to do things differently in how I work and what I make. And I wondered if producers feel anything similar.
03:51:39	Debbie (she/her):	Thank you so much for a truly stimulating discussion.
03:51:47	Huai-Wen Chang:	Thank you so much
03:52:41	LONG TABLE:	https://forms.gle/hP62FCeVPNR6raWMA